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Why Building the Right Team Is So Critical, with Aurélien Amacker…

Darrell Vesterfelt:

Hey everybody. Welcome to The Copyblogger Podcast. This is Darrell and I’m excited for a special announcement today. Today marks the first time that we will be doing two Copyblogger Podcast episodes per week. Every Monday, we’re going to be releasing an episode where Tim and I go through current updates, answer user questions, and then the second episode each week will be an interview that I host with industry experts.

So for this first second podcast episode of the week for Copyblogger Podcast, I’m excited to have Aurélien from Systeme.io. Systeme.io is a great tool that allows you to start your business, create funnels, and sell products all-in-one. Aurélien has a great story about how he got started from just a few dollars a month as an affiliate blogger to now having a seven-figure SAAS company. I’m excited for this interview, check it out. Here’s my interview with Aurélien.

Aurélien, thanks for being on the show today.

Aurélien Amacker:

Thanks, Darrell, for having me on the show.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

I’m a huge fan of Systeme.io, as you know, and we’ve been talking about for the last few weeks how simple it is for users, and how easy it is for people who are just getting started in online business. I think it’s a really brilliant tool. I’m curious to know the story behind why you started Systeme.io.

Aurélien Amacker:

Yeah, it’s going to be a long story. I hope you have a bit of time ahead of you.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

We do. Give us all the details.

Aurélien Amacker:

I’m French. I started online marketing in 2010. At that time, I didn’t have a job. I had spent two years in Australia and I was looking for a job. I had been following bloggers in France who had blogs, and they were making 500 to €1000 per month. Actually, I met one of these guys. We had lunch, and I was like, “Oh, that’s what I want to do.” I had a blog that nobody was reading, and I decided to go full time on my blog and try to make a living out of it.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

What was the blog about?

Aurélien Amacker:

It was a blog about personal development, like how to live a different life because I was … That was my story. That was my real story because this very same day I met this guy, I actually said no to a very good job offer, like a salesperson in a big growing company in Paris. I said, “No, I’m going to try to launch my own business.” That was crazy. I didn’t even tell my family. They would’ve been very angry about it. So I started working full time on my blog, publishing blog posts, trying to meet some people. The first month, I made €82 with the advertising. When I told this to a friend, he couldn’t help but laugh. I was like, “Oh, if I went from 0 to €82 in a month, maybe I could do more and more and more.” It’s pretty much what happened. The following month, I made €130, something like that. After six months, I had my first month where I was making €1000, and then I was like, okay, I’m going to create a product.

Aurélien Amacker:

I actually hired a guy who had done the launch for a successful French blogger. This launch had made €100 thousand. I went in touch with the guy and I asked him to help me. I signed a big check to him, it was €25 thousand. We started working together. Actually, he helped me create a course about how to make money blogging in the French market and sell it through webinars. We made €10 thousand. Then I went to Colombia to spend the winter and actually create the course because we sold it. I had just the first module. But the plan was to make a big huge launch using Jeff Walker Product Launch Formula. Pretty much one year later, we did the launch. We did €550 thousand of sales in two weeks, so that was crazy.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

You went from making $82 a month to a year later, building this product, and then making half a million euros in two weeks?

Aurélien Amacker:

Yeah. It’s a true story. From the time when we started working together, I was making, I don’t know, maybe €5000 per month. But the plan was to do this big launch. So I kept meeting people, trying to make connections. Everything lined up pretty well. I actually went to Brazil to shoot the videos for three days. That was an insane story, just me, the marketing guy and a video guy. That was insane. But during the launch, I had pretty much everyone promoting me in the French market. We had a launch at least of 13 thousand people and we made 550 sales of my course at €1000. It’s funny because we closed the launch, we were at the Paris Aéroport. We took the plan and went to Phoenix to the Jeff Walker event, where I signed up for his Mastermind. I was in his Mastermind for three years.

Aurélien Amacker:

It sounds great when you tell the story, but actually, I never really liked this launch model because it’s a lot of stress. It’s even worse than that, it’s a ton of stress. Before the launch, you know a launch is coming and you have this deadline. So no, I never really embraced this model. We were doing two launch, each one. We were a group of pretty much four marketers all in Jeff’s group. But yeah, I never liked the model.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

Yeah. Okay, I want to backtrack a little bit here because you went from making $82 a month to having this huge launch. How did you grow that audience of 13 thousand people? What were some of the steps that you used to grow that audience?

Aurélien Amacker:

Yeah, totally. No, what happened is that when you do a product launch, like Jeff teaches, you have some … four free videos. All your partners, they mail to a squeeze page and it’s a different squeeze page for each video. So the first week is the free content and all your partners mail to these free videos. Okay, so first video, second video, third video. Actually, the fourth video, that’s the second week. So you open the sales, and that’s the sales video. That’s how we grew the list to 13 thousand people. I had a list of maybe, I don’t know, a few thousand people, but the launch helped me to build a huge list.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

Got it. I know this model that Jeff has, but just so people who don’t know this specifically. You personally maybe had a couple thousand email subscribers before this launch-

Aurélien Amacker:

Yeah, exactly.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

But the affiliates that you brought onboard to promote this course, they were the ones who brought in the other maybe eight to 10 thousand that you didn’t have before. Is that right?

Aurélien Amacker:

Exactly.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

Awesome. You made the $550 thousand in revenue. I would guess a large chunk of that was then sent out to affiliates to pay their commissions. Is that right?

Aurélien Amacker:

Yeah, it was about a third. First, you have actually the refunds. So you get, I don’t know, maybe 10% of refunds. Okay. That’s 10% that’s lost. Then you have the payment plans. Each month, some people start paying their payment plan and you’re not going to go after them because it’s, I don’t know, three times €97, so it’s not really worth it. I’d say that refunds, you lose about 10%. Churn, attrition, you lose maybe another 10 to 15%. Then you have the VAT. That’s the value added tax that we have in Europe. That’s 20%, so you have to pay it. Then you have the affiliates, so it’s about one third. Then you have all the expenses related to the launch, the affiliate consultant.

Aurélien Amacker:

In the end, I think I was left with about maybe €130 thousand profit in the company, which was great. But again, I never liked this model. I know some people are very successful with it. Yeah. So actually, what happened is that the following year, we did 450. I was by myself, I didn’t have the consultant marketing anymore, but I used pretty much the same script and everything. Then the next year, we did 250, and the following year, 2014, we did 150. Okay. What happened is that it was converting pretty much the same, but I was getting less traffic from my partners for different reasons. I’m not going to go into this, it would be boring. But the thing is, I was in Jeff’s Mastermind group with all these successful people, and I was like, okay, but it’s not working for me and I don’t like it. So I took the decision to leave his Mastermind group at the end of 2014 and just go by myself. That was 2015.

Aurélien Amacker:

What I was doing at the time is that I was launching small products all the time. Each week, I was promoting a product, very often creating new products, new offers. I built this system where I was writing down the numbers of my launches on my list, just by myself, to try to optimize the revenue I was getting from the list. I was doing about, I don’t know, 20 to €30 thousand per month.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

Just doing these small offers. What did these small offers look like? How much did they cost? Were you teaching them live, were you recording new courses? What did that process look like?

Aurélien Amacker:

There were small courses, like maybe one to two hours of video. It’s just screencast. I have a mind map and I’m talking on top of the mind map. So it’s not mind blowing, it’s not Hollywood production, but I think it does the job. People can listen to it while they’re going to the gym or whatever. For example, I had … I published a book in 2014 and I did some promotion with some partners to place it number one in Amazon. So I did a course about how to write a book, which is mainly about how to overcome procrastination and just do it, and then launch it. I had a course about copywriting because I started copywriting. I was writing sales letters and stuff. I had a course about how to launch products, like I was doing, and actually having a tool, a Google spreadsheet where I was writing down the numbers and trying to optimize the revenue I was getting from my list. These were always things I was doing in my business and the reasons I was getting, I was actually selling this knowledge to my audience.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

I like it. I want to go back because I think a lot of people who are listening to this are saying, “Hey, I can resonate with having really small results at the beginning,” but you had such a fast trajectory from just getting started to having some pretty big success. What would you tell people who are just getting started who maybe, they’re doing the 82 thousand either euros or dollars, they’re just barely making any money, and they want to see success? What kind of mindset do you have to have to go from just getting started, barely making anything, to … you took a huge risk on yourself. €25 thousand investment when you’re not making very much money on your blog is a pretty big risk to take. Tell me about the mindset you have to have to see the type of success that you’ve had.

Aurélien Amacker:

Mindset, we could spend days on it. I think it really depends on what you want. I was ready to do anything to succeed because I just didn’t want to go back to an office space. I wanted my liberty. And making a couple of thousand euros per month, I’d be happy. But then I learned about these people doing launches in the French market, it was really the beginning. I got in touch with this guy. I’m going to tell you something, it’s a funny story. I had €50 thousand of savings, and that’s money I earned myself. I didn’t iterate or anything. My entire money was €50 thousand and I was almost 30. I met this guy and this guy was like, “Okay, so that’s €24 thousand for launch.” I thought about it for a few days. I remember, I was with a friend who is actually a startup founder, very smart guy. In the end, I was like, “Look, this guy,” actually, I had met him because we were in the dating niche. He started as a coach in the dating niche and I was participating in the forums and stuff when I was in my early 20s, so I had met this guy. I thought this guy was very smart.

Aurélien Amacker:

I was like, okay, I met this guy, he’s very smart. He launched his dating advice business, he was successful. He took it to over €200 thousand per year. He worked with another guy, and he had him do a launch and they made over €100 thousand. I was like, what more can I ask this guy? I have a good feeling, I think he’s smart, he had results for himself and he had results for customers. What can I ask him more? Nothing. So I took the decision, sent him the money. Yeah, we started working together. I think it’s a great … These are three questions that you could ask yourself where you consider making a big purchase. Do I think this person is reliable, is serious? Did this person get results for herself? And did this person get results for a customer?

Darrell Vesterfelt:

Mm-hmm (affirmative), I like that.

Aurélien Amacker:

Yeah.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

It really helps you then think through … you really were making a business decision. I actually didn’t know that you spent that much money of your … you basically spend half of your savings on this person-

Aurélien Amacker:

Yeah, exactly.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

Hoping that it would work. You took a calculated risk, but you took a huge risk. I think it’s awesome to see that it paid off. I’m curious to know, it sounds like you had years of sustained success. First doing this big launch model, and then you changed the model to be doing these weekly smaller courses. At what point did Systeme.io come into your mind? When did you start building it or thinking that it might become something that could be useful?

Aurélien Amacker:

Yeah, it’s a good question. What happened is that … I read The Lean Startup by Eric Ries in 2011 or 2012. I was always listening to some podcasts about SAS apps, like Mixergy. I always thought that was a great business model. What happened is that around 2014, 2015, I was really struggling with the apps to build my business. I signed up for Click Finance when they launched. It was 2014. But at that time, there were some things you couldn’t translate into French on the payment page, so I was like, okay, it’s not going to work and they’re never going to improve it. I think they did, but at that time, I didn’t believe it. I even signed up for Ontraport, and that was insane. I was paying $300 per month and I couldn’t even use it. I had to pay some Russian developer found on Upwork to do some tweaking with my PayPal account. He couldn’t do it, so I lost €1000. I couldn’t open an account with, I think it was 1ShoppingCart. I was like, this is crazy.

Aurélien Amacker:

I found a developer in Bangladesh and he actually did a strap integration, but it was really custom. It wasn’t something we could sell, it was only for me. I had this idea. It’s funny because you say that I was successful. In one sense, I was successful, but I was really feeling not like a total failure, but definitely not like reaching my full potential. Because in Jeff Walker’s Mastermind group, I was that guy that didn’t have much to say. I was feeling like, yeah, not really successful. When I went on my own from 2015, I could hear stories about the people in my market doing launches and doing one million, and this guy made two million. I was feeling like, wow, I’m such a loser. It’s terrible because you feel like a loser, even though you know you’re making a very decent income. Then you feel ashamed by it because you’re like, you should be happy. And I wasn’t. I was looking to do something different.

Aurélien Amacker:

In 2015, I took the decision to start investing to build an app. I found a customer of mine, a French guy who was living in Morocco. He was like, “Hey, I could do this for you. It’s going to cost you €7000.” I was like, “What? €7000? Just take the money, it’s not going to cost me much.” What happened is that after three months, when they were supposed to be done, the guy was like, “Oh, it’s so much work left. Now we have to keep working, but now, of course, we need to be paid monthly.” It makes sense because he had a developer working on it and stuff, so I started paying monthly. But these guys were horrible. You have no idea. They didn’t have any idea, they thought they were good. We actually flew to Morocco with my wife. That was April, 2016, because things were so bad. I was sending emails, not getting any answer. It was insane.

Aurélien Amacker:

I remember we were there with my wife in the meeting room and I was like, “Hey, I saw this development method that all the startups use, it’s called Scrum.” These guys, they were like, “Scrum? Hey, can you check it out?” Like they never heard about it. That’s the one method that all the startups use, so these guys didn’t have a clue.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

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Darrell Vesterfelt:

Basically, you paid all this money to get this app built for your business. Come to find out that these guys weren’t doing it right and nothing was happening, apparently.

Aurélien Amacker:

Yeah, exactly. It took me a while to realize it because the guy was really good at telling me, “No, don’t worry, it’s going to be fine.” I was like, oh yeah, it’s going to be fine. Then it was a mess. The guy wouldn’t answer my emails, I couldn’t get in touch with him. It was so terrible. Once I published a link to the app on the development server like, I don’t know, in a YouTube video or whatever, I was doing organic traffic publishing YouTube videos. One guy, he found the link and he actually injected some code and he put the link. I clicked on the link and there was a pink unicorn in the middle of the page because the code was so bad, he was able to insert some code right into the app. I was like, oh, this is not good. So I fired them all in November, 2016. I was still actually working with the developer from Bangladesh because he was still doing the custom development for me. I was selling a subscription for my online courses.

Aurélien Amacker:

The guy was like, “Oh okay, don’t worry. I’m going to take over the project. I’m going to find some guys on Upwork.” It took him two months. After two months, we used his stuff and the app stopped working completely. He was like, “Oh, don’t worry. I’m going to fix it.” I was like, “Okay.” The next day I was like, “It’s still not working.” He was like, “Don’t worry, I’m going to fix it.” I was like, “Okay.” The third day, he was like, “Oh. Don’t worry, I’m going to fix it.” I was like, “Yeah, I know you’re going to fix it but right now it’s not working anymore and it’s terrible.” We had a few customers. I was selling it. Not much, but just to a few customers. So yeah, I fired the guy. That’s when I found the right team. That was January, 2017. I was desperate trying to find some developers. I found that one guy that I could see I could rely on.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

It was almost like a whole year wasted with the wrong team. I can’t imagine. How much money did you end up spending trying to build this out during-

Aurélien Amacker:

One year, around €30 thousand.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

Wow.

Aurélien Amacker:

Yeah, but-

Darrell Vesterfelt:

I think that would’ve stopped a lot of people. I think a lot of people would’ve stopped and said, “This isn’t working.” And just keep doing the online courses because that was working for you. What made you decide to keep going and try with a third team to try to make this work?

Aurélien Amacker:

But you know, it’s like the Nigerian scam. The more you have invested, the more you’re invested. I think I was like, no, I’ve invested too much. I need to keep doing. Yeah. Only in the French market, I know four or five people who tried to do pretty much the same because the idea is not crazy. It’s not genius. It’s not new. They all failed and lost from, I don’t know, around 100 thousand to 300 thousand. Software development is very hard.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

Yeah, it is.

Aurélien Amacker:

But because I failed and I met this guy … I was trying a few different guys and they were always coming up with excuses, like, “Oh, we have the deployment process.” I was like, “Yeah. But look, the other guy, he works with the same process and he makes it work.” So that’s something very important for everyone who is listening. In life, you have two kinds of people. You have people who find excuses and people who find solutions. You want to work with people who find solutions. The other people, people who find excuses, problems, it’s very easy to spot them because they are going to come up with excuses all the time, like, “Oh, it’s because of this, it’s because of that.” Okay. But at the end of the day, I need someone who can find a solution, someone who can deliver.

Aurélien Amacker:

That’s what I found. Yeah. I talked with him and I was like, “Do you know someone who would be like you?” He was like, “Yeah, I work with this guy.” We got him on board, and then we hired a third one to develop the editor because it’s a different technology, different programming language. Yeah, we started building this thing. I don’t know, I’m going to tell you something … a kind of magic happened. We love working together with these guys. Yeah, it goes great.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

So 2017, you’ve finally got the right development team onboard, the tool is starting to come together and you’re starting to get customers in the French market. Tell me about the growth because now you have thousands, as of today in 2020, you have thousands of customers in the French market. I think your Facebook group is over 10 thousand people in France alone. It’s a tool that’s helped so many people start and launch and run their online business. Tell me what happened between finding this right team, and now where you have thousands of customers using your tool.

Aurélien Amacker:

Yeah. It’s funny because actually, we launched pretty much only two years ago. We launched at around April, May, 2018, because it took a bit more than a year to build the app. So 2017, what we did is that little by little, we moved my business over. First we moved my email list from AWeber, where I had been a customer for seven years, quite some time. We moved my email list and we moved the payment pages. In the end, we moved all the courses to the membership site inside Systeme.io. We launched two years ago and the growth, yeah, I’m stunned by the growth. At the beginning … I did a launch on my list after the launch that last for two weeks. We had 400 customers, so it gave the initial push, but it’s not enough to have sustainable growth. What we did is that we created this Facebook group, but it’s the same. It takes time to grow it.

Aurélien Amacker:

What happened is that little by little, we started getting customers, we started getting great feedback. The thing is, in our market, Click Finance was very popular. It still is today. But in the French market in 2018, Click Finance was big. That was the absolute reference. What happens is that Click Finance was starting at $97 per month when our software was starting at only €27 per month. I knew that it was important. I wanted the software to be more affordable because I know that when you’re starting out, maybe you don’t have much money, maybe you’re making minimum wage, like €1200 per month. €100 per month, it counts. It’s quite some money. So yeah, we launched it and we kept getting more and more customers. Today we have over 4000 customers. It’s been little by little, but it seemed to have been ramping up. The growth seems to have been stronger lately.

Aurélien Amacker:

Then during the COVID crisis, we experienced a huge growth because we happened to be lucky to be one of those few businesses where we actually got impacted in a positive way by the crisis, because many people were stuck at home trying to find ways to make money online, launch a side business. We even had a trainer, she wrote to us and she was like, “I used to give live classes. I can’t do it anymore, so I’m looking for ways to sell my knowledge to my audience.”

Darrell Vesterfelt:

I think that’s great. The reason we met is because you are launching Systeme.io into the English market as well. So it’s no longer just in the French market. Now you’re launching into the English market, as well as other markets in the future, which I think is really exciting. As soon as I saw the tool, I’m like, this is a simpler version of some of the more complicated tools. I got really excited. That’s when we became friends, and met when you let me know that it was coming into the English market. Systeme.io is now available in the English market, as well as the French market, and it’s a really great tool. But what I want to wrap up with is, it sounds to me as you have come up against all these different obstacles, and you’ve persisted through only making a handful of euros a month at the beginning, it sounds like you’ve just done whatever it takes to find success and you’ve learned along the way.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

If you had to talk to the 28-year-old Aurélien again, what advice would you give him, looking back to 2010? What would you say to him? What kind of advice would you give to him looking back? If you had to start all over again, how would you maybe do it differently?

Aurélien Amacker:

It’s a tough question because I’m going to tell you one thing is that, I listened to this question before, I thought about it and I couldn’t make up an answer because I think that I’m very happy with the outcome. Even though some moment were hard, I think that when you’re facing huge problems, it’s where it forces you to do more, to find some ways. Like if I had been more successful at selling my courses, if I had felt successful, I’m sure I wouldn’t have had the motivation to do this because it was tough. I would say to Aurélien, look, it’s going to be fine. Just don’t stress out too much. Try to enjoy the ride and it’s going to be great.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

What would you tell somebody who is feeling similar to how you were feeling, where they’re comparing themselves to other people, and they’re not as successful as maybe some of the other people they’re looking at or other people they’re in groups or Masterminds with? What would you say to somebody who is feeling the way that you were feeling when you were sitting in Jeff Walker’s Mastermind and they’re feeling a little bit bad about their progress so far?

Aurélien Amacker:

Yeah, it’s a great question because I’ve had a few customers who actually teach you how to be happy. I think that we want to be in good shape, we want to be wealthy, we want to be healthy. But in the end, what we want is to be happy. This, actually, like everything else, the more you work on it, the more results you get. In this case, you get happier. So you have a few tricks. One of them is to look back and enjoy what you’ve accomplished. So yeah, you have a few different techniques, but it’s very important not to lose this from your sight because you can be misled running after some things and forgetting the most important. Yeah, just looking back and enjoying what you’ve accomplished, and trying to find some things that make you happy.

Aurélien Amacker:

I remember when I wasn’t feeling happy in my business. I was really enjoying my relation with my wife. I’m still enjoying it. But I remember at that time, yeah, we had great moments. We moved to a different city where we had a great time. Yeah, just enjoying simple things. It’s funny because what makes you happy in life, I believe, are not very expensive things, like just going to the gym, having a good sweat. Just simple pleasures, they’re going to make you happy. Yeah, trying to get better every day, trying to get out of your comfort zone every day. I think succeeding, it’s a long term play.

Aurélien Amacker:

I think we haven’t mentioned something, Darrell, I wanted to add, because you asked me about the mindset of someone who would like to get started now. If I wanted to get started, there is not only the mindset, but also the strategy. I would like to add something, it could help people because … Today, we sell not only online courses, the software, but we also sell some coaching programs. Actually, recently we just reached one million per year in revenue, only with the coaching programs. Just as a simple tip I would like to give to your audience because it’s very important, because back in the days where you would start a business would be to build your email list, and then create an online course and then launch it to your list. It works, but it takes so much time and so much work. I found an easier way. I started selling … That’s actually something I learned from Jeff’s Mastermind that was from a Russian marketer, a very successful one. That was strategy to sell expensive offers, like high end seminar, individual coaching, stuff like that.

Aurélien Amacker:

I used it in 2014 and I signed up two customers for two six month coaching programming for €6000 each. That was good money for me at the time, I was happy with it. I found out how to scale this business because today I have salespeople selling our coaching programs to our audience, and I have coaches actually working with our clients to help them. So if you want to get started today, the way I would do it, it’s pretty much the same strategy that Sam Altman teaches. You choose a niche, and then you try to get on the phone with some people in your niche and you listen to them. What we do is, we have a sales script that’s very powerful and very simple. You just have to ask three questions. The first question is, if we were to have this conversation three years from now, what would have happened in your life so you feel 100% happy? This question is very important. That’s the one question from Dan Sullivan. He’s a coach, very famous one.

Aurélien Amacker:

The second question is, okay, what should you do to get there? Okay, now that the person found the ideal situation, the dream, the second question is, okay, how do we get there? The third question is, what could prevent you from getting there? What you have to do is just ask these questions and listen to the person. A good salesperson doesn’t talk, a good salesperson listens. You write down the words and expressions loaded with emotions. When the person is finished, you restrain yourself from talking and you ask, okay, is that all? Yeah, it’s a great process. It’s going to take about one hour. At the end, if you think that you can help the person, you just make her an offer. This is a great way to start your business because you can start right away. Actually, I’ve been following marketers and stuff for years. Sam was very … What he did is that he took the methodology from the foundation that he learned from them, that they learned from the guy who wrote the epiphany … anyway, who was the mentor or Eric Ries.

Aurélien Amacker:

He applied it from software to service because it’s a lot easier to sell service than software. It’s a great way to get started. You try to get people on the phone, and yes, you might be afraid, but you’ll see that you’re not selling like a sneaky salesman. You’re really asking just some simple coaching questions, listening to the person and doing her a favor in doing so, bringing a lot of value and just listening. If you feel that you might be able to help this person, then you make her an offer. When you start, you start with relatively inexpensive prices. So you get started. As long as you gain more experience, more confidence, you can raise your prices. Then you can start building your email list, creating online courses, because these are good streams of income as well. That would be my advice for someone who would like to get started.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

Yeah, I think that’s really smart. Copyblogger partner Tim Stoddard and I talked about this recently, that I think a lot of times people skip the step of doing some sort of service, whether it’s coaching, or consulting, or even doing some type of agency work, or service work or marketing work. I think people skip that step and try to build the audience right away. So I think it is really smart to start with this process specifically. Do you have a place where people can learn more about this process, where you’ve taught this process where people can learn more about it?

Aurélien Amacker:

We have a course, but we don’t have a URL. People can go to Systeme.io, that’s system with an E at the end. That’s the French spelling, but it’s okay. You can find it, I’m sure. It’s S-Y-S-T-E-M-E.io. Sign up for a free trial. There is a free trial, you don’t have to enter your credit card details. We want people to be able to try it out. Yeah, once you’re on our email list, we send offers and newsletters and stuff. Yeah.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

Great. Maybe I can drop a link in the show notes too where people can learn more about this coaching process specifically-

Aurélien Amacker:

Perfect.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

Because I think it’s really brilliant.

Aurélien Amacker:

Even better.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

Awesome. Aurélien, thank you so much for being with us today. I appreciate you sharing your story. It’s not often that we can dive into somebody that’s had success in the market that we’re not aware of. So I’m grateful that you were able to share your story about your success in the French market and excited that your product, Systeme.io, is now in the English market as well.

Aurélien Amacker:

Thank you so much, Darrell.


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