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Twitter’s Secret Game-Changer, Google Image SEO, Pandemic Pivots,…

Darrell Vesterfelt:

Hey everybody. Welcome to the Copyblogger podcast. This is the week of July 13th. My name is Darrell Vesterfelt and I’m here as always with Tim Stoddart. Tim, how are you doing?

Tim Stoddart:

I’m great. What’s up Darrell? To everybody listening, this is the first episode that we are recording in the new office space. I think another two weeks or so we’re going to have video with the Copyblogger podcast and everybody can tune into the YouTube channel. But until then, it’s great to be in this new space. And it’s great to be here. What’s up everyone?

Darrell Vesterfelt:

Yeah, I’m excited. We’re kind of in a half furnished room. Things are kind of on the floor. We’re excited to begin shooting video, adding this in another format so you guys can watch and participate. We will be giving you all the information about that when it’s time.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

But Tim, this is a great week because we’re going to talk a little bit about My.Copyblogger at the top of the show here. I don’t want to dive too deep into it, but I want to just, we had lots of questions come in last week from people. What is it? What does it mean? They know that My.Copyblogger has existed in the past. Is it going to be similar? Is it going to be different? What is it going to look like? So I want to just dedicate a few minutes for us to talk more about it today, and then we’ll talk more about it as we get closer to the launch sometime in August.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

But, I’m excited about this. So tell us just… I’m going to pass the baton to you. You tell us a little bit about what My.Copyblogger is going to be and what it means for everybody who’s listening.

Tim Stoddart:

Fantastic. And to continue on that note, the reason why we decided to bring it up in today’s podcast is that in the weekly newsletter, every time we mentioned My.Copyblogger, there’s always people hitting reply, asking more questions. We sent a link to the waitlist for anybody interested as copyblogger.com/waitlist, I believe.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

Yep.

Tim Stoddart:

So you can sign up there to be notified when we officially launch it. But yeah, we wanted to give just a couple minutes to talk about it a little more because so many people have questions. So in summary, My.Copyblogger is going to be Copyblogger’s membership program. It’s going to have two levels to it. We are providing a free aspect to My.Copyblogger. We want to make sure that there are resources for people that want to be part of a kind of first-tier community, may not necessarily want to dive in all the way to the paid membership. And there’s going to be some valuable resources for the free side. But for the pay side, we are packing so much value into this thing.

Tim Stoddart:

So we’re going to have archived videos of all the masterclasses that we’ve done and will continue to do. We’re going to have an interactive community where Darrell and myself and Brian are going to be interacting with all of your questions, answering any challenges that you guys are facing in trying to grow your online business and dealing with some of your content marketing challenges. And then we’re also going to have weekly-ish live Q&A and coaching sessions with ourselves and with other industry experts.

Tim Stoddart:

We’ve been booking appointments for the last couple of months trying to get some of the top-rated experts in the industry involved and dedicated to giving presentations, giving you some behind the scenes on what they have done to grow their companies. Because we want to, how do I say this? We want to give not just the standard courses and educational material, but we want this to be like real behind the scenes interactive education where ourselves and other leading experts in all different types of fields and niches with online business can show us and show the audience what have we done to grow? What has worked. What hasn’t worked. Here’s an example of some success. Here’s an example of some failures and really give an interactive education.

Tim Stoddart:

So we are shooting for mid-August. We’re looking for the second week or the third week in August. We will have a more specific date as we get closer. And if you have any more questions about it feel free to continue to reply to the Copyblogger newsletter that gets sent out every Friday. And just one last time, if you want to be on the waitlist, it’s copyblogger.com/waitlist.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

I’m super excited about it. The free memberships going to have a lot of good stuff too. We kind of glazed over that, but it’s going to have our entire ebook library. It’s going to have all of our free workshop recordings, kind of categorized in the library. Those aren’t found actually on the site. We only leave those up for a week after we replay them. So all those recordings of those workshops, all of our AMA recordings will be there as well. We’re eventually going to put some guides and some other legacy content in there. It’s going to be a lot.

Tim Stoddart:

It’s a lot.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

A lot of content there for free, which is really exciting. And the paid it’s just like a whole other level. And what I’m really excited about this is My.Copyblogger has a rich history. They’re almost half a million people who are signed up for My.Copyblogger years and years ago when this was a main part of how Copyblogger ran its community. The forum was really active. The community was really active. And so I’m excited for us to put a new spin on some of those old things and to pay homage to the legacy that Copyblogger has with this rich community.

Tim Stoddart:

Yeah, likewise.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

And you and I are going to be in that thing all the time, answering questions, sending video replies, doing AMAs, live calls. It’s going to be really exciting for us because it’s fun. I actually love doing that stuff.

Tim Stoddart:

Me too.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

I love answering questions. You and I both have seen a lot of success from what we’ve learned at Copyblogger, and sharing that success and sharing our experience and best practices. And not only that, bringing in all of our friends, Brian Clark’s friends who are industry experts, who also can share their expertise. So we’re going to treat this like a family, like a community where we’re going to give our best content into that paid membership.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

And just on top of that, I mean the masterclasses, I think there’s six of them or five or six of them, and those are $150 value each, and those will be free. And then every time we launch a new master class, that will be absolutely free in the membership as well. So it’s a great value. I’m super excited about it. Just all of that content alone, without the masterclasses and legacy library content would be worth the price. So, I’m excited about it. We’ll talk more about it every week as we get closer. But really, really pumped about this and about the engagement that we’re going to have from such a cool community.

Tim Stoddart:

We’ve been talking about it and working on it for so long and it’s hard to be working on this kind of thing. And you know, sometimes you’re like bursting at the seams to tell people about it. And I know that I’ve talked it up a lot. I’m really, really bullish on the fact that I believe it’s the coolest membership community that has really been created. We’ve seen a lot of memberships that’s kind of the same thing recycled. This is different. We’re not just giving you premium content. This is behind the scenes interactive. You’re going to get to know me and Darrell. Some of the most successful people in online business. You’re going to get to know us. You’re going to have conversations with us, and it’s just really, really cool and I’m very proud of what we have accomplished with it so far. And I know that it’s going to be different.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

Yeah, excited. So we’ll put a pin in that. We’ll talk more about it in the coming weeks and let’s move on to our stories this week.

Tim Stoddart:

All right. Our first story. This is really exciting to me as a huge fan of Twitter. And as somebody that has seen Twitter kind of as like the last great hope to save social media. I know that there’s a lot of rage culture on Twitter and I’m not denying that by any means, but in a lot of ways, Twitter is the most, what do they call it, like, democratization of content, right? Democratization of ideas. And I’ve always felt really good about Twitter’s potential to share ideas and new information.

Tim Stoddart:

So, with all of that being said, “Twitter stock jumps on potential subscription platform.” So there’s been a lot of whispering and scheming behind the scenes with Twitter. They started this incubator program that I think they call Griffin. And it was recently some information was leaked that Twitter is starting their own membership program. They’re going to have, I think the model is the Twitter is going to completely be free like it is, but Griffin is going to be a monthly subscription-based model where, I don’t know exactly. I don’t know what the features are going to be because it’s all so very hush, hush, but I think this is cool. And I think that finally, after all this time, Twitter might do something revolutionary, which will be great for all of us.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

Yeah. It’s really interesting. I think what’s funny is when you see an article headline that says the stock price jumped, it’s so funny to think about how emotional the market is sometimes. There’s almost no information about what they’re doing behind the scenes. And this all came from a job posting that they put out for a community manager. So I’m really curious because what’s interesting about what the article says is that after there was a lot of hype about this and the stock price was starting to soar, Twitter actually changed the job posting a little bit to soften it up and not give away as much information. So we’ll keep you up to date-

Tim Stoddart:

They’re doing it.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

… as we learn more about this but really interesting to see what Twitter might roll out as far as subscription service and what that might mean exactly. I’m very, very curious to see what they come with.

Tim Stoddart:

Yeah, me too, because Twitter is like… When people think of social media and the way that we talk about it, it’s very much a content promotion service, right? Like create something and then you use social media to get as many people, as many eyeballs on your content as possible. But what Twitter does is… I always describe Twitter as like an endless Rolodex. You can get in touch with anybody. I actually, believe it or not, years ago, I had a DM conversation with Macklemore on Twitter because of a project I was working on. And you can’t do that with other social media. So like the value, I feel, that for content marketers especially, Twitter brings the most value out of all of them because it enables you to make relationships with people. People who it would probably be difficult to get in touch with if you were just trying to cold call them take them out to “coffee”, quote-unquote, right?

Tim Stoddart:

With Twitter, you can follow people. You can send them DMs. You can tag them on stuff. And it’s easy to get people’s attention. And if this works and if Griffin is a real thing, which it basically is, there’s been enough inside information going on on this, I think this could really change the game in terms of people using the art of networking to build relationships, get guest posts, do group marketing events and use it as an actual quote “social platform”, as opposed to just everybody come look at what I made. You know?

Darrell Vesterfelt:

Yeah. I think so too. I love Twitter. It’s my favorite platform even though I don’t post on it very often. I’m lurking around a lot, reading the feeds all time. I actually love it. So I love Twitter. I hope to see it do something to thrust its way back into the top of the social media world.

Tim Stoddart:

Me too. Yeah, me too.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

So, next story, the title of the story is Google Creates a New Way to Drive Traffic via image search. Tim, this is kind of your wheelhouse. I know that you’re the SEO traffic guy. Tell me what this means and what’s going on with Google here.

Tim Stoddart:

Well this is interesting. And the reason it’s interesting is because Google Images has been such a huge part of Google that nobody really knows about and nobody really uses. So when anybody thinks of searching something on Google, you think of content and videos, right? But there is kind of this little underbelly of Google that is, through Images, in the same way that you would search for like a query, you can search via Images.

Tim Stoddart:

So you can do that reverse Google search. So if you have a picture on your phone, let’s say there’s like a flower or something that you want to know what it is. You can take a picture of it and you can reverse search through Google Images. But what this article is talking about is actually using Google Images as more of a traffic referral source, where you can SEO your images through Google’s Knowledge Graph.

Tim Stoddart:

So let me read you a quote from this article. This article is on searchenginejournal.com and we’ll link it in the show notes. Okay, here it is. “Google is adding more context to photos in image search results which presents site owners with new opportunity to earn traffic. Launching this week, a new feature in Google Images surfaces quick facts about what is being shown in photos. Information about people, places or things related to the image is pulled from Google’s Knowledge Graph and displayed underneath photos when they’re clicked on.”

Tim Stoddart:

So this is potentially a really big deal because when we post articles most articles have an image in them. And that image has an HTML tag, it’s called an alt tag. And you can put a keyword around that image. So let’s say you’re writing an article about Montana state parks and you tag that image Montana state parks. Well if somebody stumbles across that image, it used to just be they’d see the picture and that’s it. And there’s no incentive for them to click on the picture, to click through to an article. But now that image is going to have a whole bunch of information underneath of it, which gives you opportunities and gives you options to click through to actual articles that can provide information on Montana state parks. This information is going to be displayed through Google’s Knowledge Graph. And I’m not really going to explain what that means, but the point is it’s going to be accurate because they know that the tags are related.

Tim Stoddart:

So again, just using this Montana state park example, if you go to Google Image and you’re searching for state parks, you’re on Montana, now, through Google’s Knowledge Graph, information is going to be displayed underneath the image, which is going to potentially, potentially provide site owners new opportunities to drive traffic to their websites.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

So tell me how… Like I know that you have a lot of sites that you work on. How will you use this information differently? For the people who aren’t SEOs like you, how can we think differently, or how can we act differently to try to drive traffic via images on our site with this information?

Tim Stoddart:

Yeah man, that’s a really good question. I would say that for most people, it may not be that applicable. I mean, let’s just say Copyblogger for instance. There’s not a whole lot of people that are going to be going and searching images about email marketing. The context just isn’t there. But I’d say for any kind of business that has scenery, I’d say real estate, this could probably play a pretty big role. I’d say for a lot of products, what I think this might do is take some of the traffic away from Google’s ad role. So if you’re searching for products and on the main page of the search results you see the advertisements, basically the snippets of the product, which will lead you to Google Shopping or Amazon or something like that. It may be the case that a lot of those search queries end up going to Images and people may click on those actual images to go to the product, excuse me, as opposed to through the advertisement.

Tim Stoddart:

And then on that note, there actually is some more context on this article about it. So this article says, “Does more content equal more clicks? Google says this update is intended to help searchers explore topics in more detail. One of the ways searchers can explore topics in more detail is by visiting the webpage where the image is featured. The adage context is likely to make images more appealing to click on. It’s almost like Google added meta descriptions to image search results.”

Tim Stoddart:

And, oh, perfect. So architecture, they actually have some good examples if you’re looking for great examples of architecture. Now, the image itself is going to be sourced to the page that that image came from. There’s, oh, recipes is a really good one. Food of all different kinds. That’s a great example. Certainly images, high-quality images, on food that people look at. And I would expect that this update is going to start driving those clicks to the website that the image is hosted on. So.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

So question, do the ranking of images work similarly to the ranking of Google search results?

Tim Stoddart:

Yeah, they do. It’s just simpler. There are not that many ways to SEO an image. It’s basically just the alt tag combined with the authority of the website that the image is hosted on. So there are other factors, but mostly it’s the same thing. If you post your image with a keyword-rich alt tag on a strong website, you’re more likely going to show up at the top of Google Image results.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

Interesting. That makes me think through, you said, Copyblogger doesn’t have a lot of potential things, but I’m curious for maybe you and I’d even take some time this week and think about if there are some things that people would be searching images for. Because I do think that there probably are some edge cases in brands that if your site has a high domain authority and you have a high-quality image and you start SEOing these images, you could potentially see some increase in traffic around maybe even just weird, specific things within your industry that are maybe very specific.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

I can’t think of anything off the top of my head, but it feels like something that you and I should spend an hour on just even thinking about. And I think all brands should take that into account. Is there something where an image could drive traffic where you know people are going to search images?

Darrell Vesterfelt:

And the last question I have is, I know that there are tools like Ahrefs, SEMrush, others where you can get keyword research. Is there any tool where you can do image research to see how many people are searching specific images and things like that?

Tim Stoddart:

Not that I know of. If there is it’s most likely just a feature in those tools. So I don’t think so. But, let me go back to what you just said about there potentially being something with Copyblogger or with websites that there may not be such obvious examples. Because even as you were saying that I’m thinking to myself, how many people are going to look at Google Images for screenshots, right?

Tim Stoddart:

Like when looking for instructions on something I don’t know about ConvertKit, a lot of times I’m sent to articles that give me step by step instructions, and with those instructions, there’s screenshots like red arrows basically that say, “Click here” and then this pops up. So, this is a really simple example, but I wonder how many people are going to Google Images to type really obscure things like, “What button do I click on ConvertKit to send an email?” You know, like really, really, really hyper-specific stuff where the screenshot in instructional articles would play a role. So, I mean, there are billions of searches on Google. All of that stuff makes a difference for sure.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

Interesting. I think there’s a lot to dive into.

Tim Stoddart:

It’s a lot.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

And we’ll keep talking about this as more information about this update comes down the pipe for us but, something to think about, something for you to maybe go back and do some insertion of tags and meta-description on your images on your site, if that’s something that you’re able to do.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

So, the third story. And this is a little bit different. It’s not an article that we’re going to talk about, but I was listening to Chris Ducker’s podcast this week.

Tim Stoddart:

Yeah. You were telling me about this.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

Chris Ducker is a friend of Copyblogger and he announced that he is canceling his virtual summit. Now, all of this due to coronavirus, the global pandemic. Chris hosts an amazing event every year in London. I think it was in the Philippines before, now it’s in London.

Tim Stoddart:

It’s in London now.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

And that obviously had to cancel. So many of our friends and other companies we know have canceled their conferences, conferences that you and I were going to go to have been canceled. That’s been very clear. But now Chris is saying, “We pivoted from doing an in-person event, pivoted to a virtual summit, and now I’m canceling that summit.” And Chris Ducker summit is not a newsworthy thing because I think it’s a lot of things are happening, but it’s sparked a really interesting conversation that I want to have with you because I think especially here in the US the coronavirus is not slowing down. It’s actually speeding up a little bit. And there are probably many more months where business is going to be affected in a lot of people’s lives.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

So we talked about pivoting in March and April, and now we’re in July. And I think the pivoting is going to have to continue. So that’s a great example of an in-person event, pivoted to a virtual event, people are now, have Zoom fatigue. They have online course fatigue. They have sitting in front of their screen fatigue, and they’re just not engaging the same way they were when we were quarantined at home for the first few weeks. So it’s really interesting.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

I kind of want to just bring this conversation up about how to have a mindset of continuing to pivot through this pandemic. How long it may last. We don’t know. Maybe a few more months, maybe an entire year, but our economy is going to be affected for a while and how we kind of have a continual pivot mindset. But what are your thoughts about seeing that announcement from Chris and kind of knowing that business’s kind of going to be fragile and interesting and uncertain and unsure for the next few months?

Tim Stoddart:

Yeah. You sent me the link to that. I was disappointed. I know that Chris is a friend of Copyblogger. I sent some emails back and forth with him once or twice, but I don’t know him. With that being said, I was disappointed for him. And he was very transparent about the experience. Basically, he said that obviously they had to cancel the in-person summit. So they transitioned to a virtual summit and he said, when they launched it, he just didn’t get the response he wanted and so he asked people, “How come you don’t want to attend our virtual summit?” And he said it was two reasons. One was just because of the instability in the economy people are being really careful with their money and two, just because they weren’t necessarily interested in a virtual summit. And it’s tough, man. Like we’ve had to do it.

Tim Stoddart:

When the virus first started, a lot of people don’t know this because we were just ramping it up, but we actually held our first in-person event in the life, well, not the entire life span, but certainly since you and I have been involved with Copyblogger. And it was such a fun, exciting event and I met a lot of cool people there and I actually still have a pretty good relationship with all the people we met. But I remember being there and it was right when the virus was first happening and people were already kind of like, “I don’t know if I should be here or not.” And it just felt weird. Right? Like it just felt weird.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

It was. And it was even weirder with that event that we had because we were starting to have those conversations, but it was also a tornado hit Nashville the day before. So it was a very weird day for us in general but, I think you’re right. And I remember back thinking, “Oh, this is not going to be a big deal.”

Tim Stoddart:

Me too.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

“We’ll quarantine for a few weeks. Everybody will abide by the rules. We’ll quarantine for a few weeks, it’ll be over.” And that was not a realistic thought. And the reason I’m bringing this conversation up is that we’re going to have to have a flexible mindset around our businesses for awhile. And I think a lot of people are being affected in a lot of ways and the effects are just very recent and there’s going to be cascading economic effects and cascading market effects after this as well that we still can’t predict or know for sure.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

And I think it’s really interesting. And so I think the reason I’m bringing it up is that you’ve got to be flexible. If something’s not working, it doesn’t mean it’s over. And I think that’s what’s interesting with Chris, is to see Chris go from an in-person event to a virtual event. And I’m sure Chris is losing revenue because of that, projected revenue.

Tim Stoddart:

I’m sure.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

But that doesn’t mean that it’s just over, right? Like having a constant mind to think through how I can serve my audience, how I can create new products, how I can pivot my offerings. That mindset is something we’re going to have to become comfortable with because I think this is going to happen for a few more months.

Tim Stoddart:

Absolutely. Life is uncertain and I don’t think any of us expected… Since we’ve done the podcast in this format, we’ve never really, really talked about the virus. And I think that was intentional on our part just because we hear it so often, but it’s just getting to the point where I think a lot of people thought or expected that it would probably be gone by now. And now this uncertainty that we’ve been living with is almost becoming like the norm. Right?

Tim Stoddart:

We’re getting more and more comfortable with the idea that we don’t really know what’s going to happen. And for me, especially with what we’re… I mean, just another example, we planned on having in-person meetings, like a real part of our model with Copyblogger. We had lots of conversations with it and we talked to some people about essentially renting out space for us to do this. And we’ve had to pivot away from that as well. So that mindset is like, what other choice do you have really? It’s either curl up and throw up your hands and basically say, “I can’t do this anymore.” Or you find a way to adjust to the market. That’s what we’re having to do.

Tim Stoddart:

There’s been a whole lot of decisions that we’ve had to make, same with everybody, but here’s, I guess, the glimmer of hope with it is new opportunities will emerge and already have been emerging. And it’s a saying that’s as true now, as it’s ever been, “With change comes opportunity.” And so I try my best and I guess I would just encourage everybody to do this. Just keep your eyes open because something will pop up and those new opportunities are going to be taken advantage by somebody, so it might as well be you.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

Yeah, I completely agree. And, I think the other thing is fatigue is real.

Tim Stoddart:

It is.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

It’s real for you. It’s real for your users or your customers or your students. It’s real and I think that we’re all participating in it. And so marketing has to adjust around that too. It has to take that into account. You can’t just keep doing the same things that worked in February now, because it’s a different world that we live in. And this is all going to go away someday. That’s probably like famous last words, but it’s all going to go away someday and we’ll be back to normal. And maybe that’s later this year, maybe that’s next year. Maybe that’s two years from now. We don’t know that. And I think that’s what’s also part of what’s hard here.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

But part of the new normal, at least in this current state, is that fatigue happens differently than it happened before. And to be aware of that with your customers, how you communicate to your customers, how you communicate with your team members. How you interact with your life and your work, it’s a lot different too. So I think the reality here is just to watch for opportunities, be flexible and just continue to adjust as we learn and just know that you’re not going to be just locked in. Like this is 2020, it’s not a year of just lock it in and do what’s always been done. It’s a year of watching, paying attention and adjusting, being flexible.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

This episode is brought to you by ConvertKit, an email marketing and audience building tool for creators. I love ConvertKit. Copyblogger loves ConvertKit. It’s the tool that we use for our email marketing efforts.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

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Darrell Vesterfelt:

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Darrell Vesterfelt:

All right, let’s get to our question for the week.

Tim Stoddart:

2020 man.
Speaker 3:
Hey guys, my name is Becky and I’m from New Hampshire. I have grown a little email list of about 800 people and I want your advice on how to start to monetize my audience. I don’t feel confident creating online courses right now so where should I start?

Darrell Vesterfelt:

Awesome. That’s a great question Becky, Becky from New Hampshire. Thanks for sending that question in.

Tim Stoddart:

Thanks Becky.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

We’re really grateful for that. So this is really interesting. We’ve had some of these conversations in the AMAs that we’ve done. We definitely had this conversation in the online business master class that we taught, but Tim, what suggestion would you give to Becky to start monetizing her platform right now?

Tim Stoddart:

Affiliate. Becky, you’re in the perfect position to monetize through affiliate. And I’ll tell you why. I’ve been having a bit of an affiliate Renaissance in 2020.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

You sure have.

Tim Stoddart:

I really have. I never took it seriously. And I might’ve mentioned this in a previous podcast but it just didn’t seem like an applicable model to me. And I’ve recently discovered, through some examples, that the trick to affiliate is having a website that is very, very, very specific to something so that you can become an expert, a trusted authority, people respect your opinion and your viewpoint in something as specific as gardening.

Tim Stoddart:

So, Becky, if your website was about like, Huffington post style, if it was just a gossip site or whatever, I wouldn’t say affiliate was a good idea because why would anybody trust your viewpoint on products? But since your website is specific to gardening, man, you are just in the perfect position to list other people’s products on your website, to create how-to articles, to create articles about gear or tools or soil or other instructional type content in which you can list the best products and/or courses throughout your content.

Tim Stoddart:

This is just a great option for people that don’t necessarily want to take the time to create courses of their own or create products on their own. They just enjoy doing the writing. They enjoy creating the content. They enjoy building an audience through their email list and want to leverage other people’s products. And why not? There’s plenty of great stuff out there. Yeah. So, Becky, find a good affiliate network, make sure that you do your research and the products you present to your audience are legitimate and are in line with the advice that you give. But if you’re respected in the world of gardening, you can definitely make money through affiliate marketing.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

Yeah. I agree. One of my good friends Pat Flynn started his entire monetization process of his platform with affiliate marketing as well. And Pat has a ton of amazing resources. We’re going to someday soon have Pat teach a webinar about affiliate marketing because is such an interesting topic. It is one that I think gets a way worse rap than it should.

Tim Stoddart:

Yep.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

And so it’s really interesting. And I know that you were in that camp for a long time. You kind of were a hater of the affiliate marketing game.

Tim Stoddart:

That was me.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

I have been not so much a hater, but somebody whose kind of been like, “eh” about it. But I also know that when I was at ConvertKit, affiliates drove a ton of our revenue, so it’s a very powerful thing. Affiliates, when done well, work for everybody. And that’s what’s so interesting about it.

Tim Stoddart:

Yeah. That’s a good way to look at it.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

It works for the person promoting and it works for the company who is being promoted. And it’s a really great concept. So with 800 email subscribers, I completely agree. I think it’s a great start. The other thing I’ll say here is eventually you want to have a strategy where you own 100% of the revenue on a product.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

So I want you Becky to start getting comfortable with online courses, but affiliating other people’s either online courses or products that are about gardening or central to being a gardener. It could be seeds. I actually know some seed companies that have affiliates. If it’s tools, there’s a lot of things that you could affiliate that are products that gardeners will use and also other education. And I would do both because you’re going to see how your audience responds to other people’s education, which is going to inform you what education you can create in the future.

Tim Stoddart:

Agreed.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

So as you’re getting comfortable, creating online courses, whether that’s learning more, getting more comfortable on camera, you can do this to make money and you don’t just have to wait and have nothing in between. So I think affiliate marketing is the exact right answer, Tim.

Tim Stoddart:

Yeah, but I also totally think you’re dead on with use affiliate products to see what people like. Pay attention, get a feel for your audience and what they’re responding to and then take that data and take your time and create the best in-house product that you possibly can. And you may be surprised. It may be that your product makes twice as much money as all your affiliate revenue combined.

Tim Stoddart:

Most likely, if you have a loyal audience that will be the case, especially if you listen well and you have the insights to your audience down pat. But there’s no reason not to start with affiliate, especially for a community such as gardening where people are so passionate about it and they’re so into it. So, keep going Becky. Be well.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

Awesome. Thanks for the question Becky. And Tim, have a great week. Thanks for being with us.

Tim Stoddart:

Of course.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

We will be back again next week, July the 20th. Talk to you guys then.

Tim Stoddart:

See ya.


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