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Shopify vs Amazon, Busting the Myth of Success, and the Right Way…

Darrell Vesterfelt:

Hey everybody. Welcome to the Copyblogger Podcast. This is Darrell and I’m here with Tim, excited for another week with you on the podcast. Tim, how’re you doing this week?

Tim Stoddart:

I’m great. What’s up Darrell. What’s up everybody. Glad to be here.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

Another week here on the Copyblogger Podcast-

Tim Stoddart:

Yes sir.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

… having a blast. We have a few articles today, and then our reader question that we’re going to dive into excited for the podcast. First of all, thank you so much for all the amazing feedback we’ve been getting about this new format of the podcast, the re-energized music, all of it. It’s been really, really fun to do this and this new format. And it’s been really great to hear from all of you guys about how much you’ve enjoyed it as well. So…

Tim Stoddart:

Certainly, thank you everyone.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

Tim, what other updates do we have for this week?

Tim Stoddart:

Yeah, quick updates, nothing too major to announce this week, we have started to receive our first voice questions and that is very, very exciting. The questions that we had the first two episodes came to us via our newsletter and so we had to read them out. But again, if you go to copyblogger.com/ask, you can submit a voice question and we will feature you on the show. So stay tuned to the end of this episode, and you will hear a voice question. We love hearing from you guys.

We’re excited to interact with you also. Once again, copyblogger.com/ask, and our second update from this point forward, and we’re even going to going to go back through our old posts, you’re going to get a great transcript of all of the podcast episodes that are on copyblogger.com.

Tim Stoddart:

We have a really, really unique tool which will allow you to download the transcript in a PDF format, or you can read it on the actual blog post itself. So you can read it live. You can save it for later. You can highlight parts and you can take clips. And it’s a great new addition, especially for people that are hearing impaired, because we want to make sure that we make this available to everybody. So we’re excited about those updates and we appreciate you guys paying attention.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

And that really cool tool is called Fusebox, which we’ll talk about more in the future. But a really cool partner that we are working with for this podcast, our really great player on the website is also Fusebox plugin as well, but we’ll talk more about that later. It’s a really cool tool. So articles this week or not articles, things that we want to talk about. Number one is ConvertKit made an incredible announcement which makes me look like a genius.

Tim Stoddart:

Yeah, you got it bro.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

It is this week ConvertKit announced the launch of ConvertKit Commerce. Essentially what this is going to be is now through ConvertKit and for no additional cost, you can sell digital products and subscriptions. Nathan Barry made the announcement, I think on Monday or Tuesday of this week. And there is currently a waiting list open for this tool for a July 15th release when they’ll send out their first invites. So really exciting that this is happening. I knew that things were brewing because I’ve been hearing a little rumbling about this type of thing happening, but it’s really, really fun to see this happen. Tim, what do you think this means for other email marketing tools to maybe follow suit later?

Tim Stoddart:

Well, I think it’s a really big deal. So what ConvertKit is doing is kind of indirectly competing with a few different companies, right? Because online course products, essentially, they still sell their products through email, right? Although it’s not quite the same, but ConvertKit is going to make it easier for content creators to sell their products through email. It takes a step out of the process and we all know that the fewer clicks and the fewer steps, the higher your conversion rate. So I’m excited to see how it unfolds because I don’t necessarily have the big picture of what this product is going to be, but simply put, it’s going to make it easier for people like you and I to sell our digital products directly through email.

Tim Stoddart:

So that means our courses. That means our eBooks. That means our memberships. That means potentially our subscription-based newsletters. There’s a whole new realm of possibilities that are not open to content creators, thanks to the new announcement from ConvertKit. So I’m actually looking at the page right now, I don’t know if you said it already Darrell, if you didn’t, it’s convertkit.com/commerce, and I’m just really excited to see what happens here. I’m excited as a fan and as an entrepreneur, just as much as I’m excited about the announcement. I’m excited to use this tool personally.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

So I listened to a live stream with Nathan Barry on their podcasts, where they talked about this release and how they’ve been working on it and what it will mean. And I think this will really have an effect for selling digital products and then also selling things like subscriptions to paid newsletters. I think that’s where you’ll have a huge win. They did mention that there’s no functionality or integrations with things like Teachable. I think if it’s, I don’t think it will affect the online course stuff, but who knows what happens in the future? Again, I don’t know what their plans are in the future, but it feels like they’re just taking the next step out to own more of the digital space, where from a marketing standpoint, ConvertKit can be your go to tool.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

And instead of using something like Easy Digital Downloads or Substack or some of these other things that you might have to use that would be outside of your marketing platform, which we had talked about a couple of weeks ago, would be a downside of something like Substack where you would have all of your marketing emails in one place but then your paid newsletter and another, this kind of solves that problem. So I think it’s a huge move for them. I think the direct competitors that they’re going to go after are things like Gumroad and things like Substack, that will kind of be what I think this solves for.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

And I think it’ll be really interesting to see how it plays out. And so July 15th is the date that we’re going to mark to see what happens here and I’m really excited. It’s going to be fun. So again, convertkit.com/commerce. You can sign up for the wait list of that product if you want. If you want to start your free trial of ConvertKit, another thing they announced just in the last week is that they’re now allowing their free plan up to 1000 subscribers instead of just 500.

Tim Stoddart:

Wow. So they just announced their free plan, I think because the COVID, right?

Darrell Vesterfelt:

They announced it in the beginning of the year for the free plan, but they have up to the 500. Now they’ve up to 2000.

Tim Stoddart:

Wow.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

So really great tool. Again, you can check out more about ConvertKit at copyblogger.com/convertkit. And this will definitely be an ongoing conversation we have because we love ConvertKit. We actually use ConvertKit. It’s likely at some level we’ll use ConvertKit Commerce with Copyblogger at some stage as well. But really exciting and really fun, exciting thing to check out. And we’ll kind of keep you in the loop as this releases and we play around with it a little bit more.

Tim Stoddart:

Cool. I love it.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

All right. Next is about Shopify and Tim, you send this over to me.

Tim Stoddart:

Yeah.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

And the article says, Shopify goes after Amazon with new Walmart deal.

Tim Stoddart:

I find this stuff to be very exciting, but that’s also just because it’s, this is going to sound so ridiculous, but it’s almost like the online entrepreneur gossip kind of content like, “Oh, did you hear what happened this week?” And this particular article is on Axios. We’ll link this in the show notes. However, this was a huge announcement. I’m sure you could see it on Bloomberg, on Vanguard, on thousands of websites. But the news is that Shopify inked a deal with Walmart so that they can try to directly compete with them in the eCommerce space.

Tim Stoddart:

So this is important for two reasons. It’s important just because it’s big news for content creators because Shopify, second to WooCommerce, well, second to WordPress, and I don’t know if this is true, so don’t send me emails saying about how inaccurate I was, but I think that Shopify is probably the second largest platform used behind WordPress. I’m pretty sure that’s true. So just the fact that a web based platform with such magnitude has inked a deal with Walmart is news within itself.

Tim Stoddart:

But the reason why I wanted to bring it on today’s episode, Darrell is because last week, you and I spoke a lot about how we can use content marketing to sell other things outside of just digital products. I hadn’t mentioned that I have experience in streetwear and there’s lots of people that create jewelry and try to sell things on Etsy.

And those are all really, really great businesses. But when I see a lot of these online eCommerce stores, the first thing as a content marketer that I always notice is how few of these companies put any real effort into their content marketing. Usually it’s like a blog post here with maybe like a picture and a couple sentences or a couple of Instagram posts.

Tim Stoddart:

And although I appreciate the effort, it’s clear that the culture is much more comfortable with shopping online, is much more comfortable cruising and discovering new independent brands and in our view, and which is always going to be our view, the best way to, if you’re one of those independent brands, the best way to grow your network is to create great content. So now there’s even more opportunities to be a really effective content marketer, even if you’re in the eCommerce space that is selling a physical product. This is important and we should get on this.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

So here’s what it means. Shopify in the last little bit has made partnership with both Facebook and Walmart, as well as several other partners. They are directly going after Amazon, which is super interesting. So basically what this article is saying is that with these latest deals, Shopify is moving more directly onto the turf of the Amazon marketplace, which lets third-party retailers sell through Amazon’s online store. So what that means is with this deal with Walmart, Shopify merchants will be able to sell their products as individuals on the Walmart marketplace.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

It’s very interesting because Shopify… If you don’t know about Shopify from a business standpoint and what they have been like since their IPO, I think four years ago, that company has been on a tear and they are onboarding customers like crazy. They have several brands that are selling hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars in products on their platform. And they are really making a play to go after the giant, which I think is really interesting.

Tim Stoddart:

I think it’s cool.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

And they’re doing it with the help of other giants like Facebook and Walmart. So I think this will likely have some implications with the affiliate program, the Amazon slashed a few weeks ago, we talked about. I don’t know that for sure but my guess would be at some point, Shopify will roll out some sort of affiliate plan that will have implications with the Walmart marketplace and these third party retailers. So it’ll be really interesting to say Shopify saying that by end of year, they could see a 1200 merchants being able to sell through the Walmart marketplace, which is really interesting.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

And I wonder what that might look like for in-store placements. There’s just a lot of implications that we can’t know right now, but it could be a lot for really independent third party people who are selling via Shopify. So it’s a really exciting thing for us to keep a pulse on and I just like the drama of the two. I like the Walmart versus Amazon type thing. And I think it’ll be interesting for us to keep our tabs on this.

Tim Stoddart:

For sure. It’s difficult to know. I think it’s reasonable to assume two things. I think it’s reasonable to assume that if Shopify independent retailers are now going to be able to sell their products directly on the Walmart marketplace, it’s likely that we’re not far off to where you can do the reverse to where if I’m a product manufacturer of some kind and I can upload onto Walmart, and then another company comes along that has a Shopify store, why can’t they tap into the Walmart marketplace and then sell that same product on their Shopify store? So it just creates this entire network of content creators that can cope brands and that can work with each other. They can set up affiliate deals.

Tim Stoddart:

This is all speculation, but it’s not unreasonable to think that these things will happen, especially, because if anybody listening to this is familiar with the functionality of Shopify, they have a module which they call the Buy Button, which allows you to embed products directly into your content. So if you’re reading a blog post, you can buy a product right from the blog post with a buy now button. And the shopping cart opens up like natively on that post. So I think it gives Shopify store owners more products to sell and it gives Shopify store owners more opportunities to be seen because they’re going to be on Walmart. So it’s difficult to say like we said, but I’m excited to find out.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

All right. And the last piece of content we want to talk about is actually from our own blog. So Tim, I’ll let you take this one up.

Tim Stoddart:

All right. This article is from the Copyblogger blog. This was written by Stefanie Flaxman. And I wanted to mention this on the podcast because I was just very inspired to read this. And I think that this article is a perfect example to some of the ideas that Copyblogger has put forth which has been so helpful and so valuable to people. So the article is entitled, Seven Unusual Signs on the Path to a Breakthrough.

And what Stefanie is getting at is all the times in our lives and in our careers where we want to give up, where we face some controversy, where we may say to ourselves, there’s no point in going any longer and placing these examples of all the different reasons why it just takes one more step, why it just takes holding on a little bit longer to eventually see that breakthrough. So I stumbled through that a little bit. It’s up for you sometime to get through it, but Darrell I know that you have some experience with this, so I’d love to hear your input.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

Yeah. I love this article. It’s really great. I’m so glad that Stefanie wrote it because I think the reality is the people who I know who are successful, it’s very rare that it was the pathway that we think it was. We see the cliff notes version from an outside perspective, but what we don’t know is all of the shit that they had to go through to get there. And I had a really great podcast interview with Matt Raglin. I’ve mentioned this podcast interview a few times where Matt just stuck it out with his YouTube channel, where he recorded a video a week for… I don’t even know how long, months, a year before he even-

Tim Stoddart:

It’s more than a year.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

More than a year before he even had 500 subscribers on that channel. And I think so many people would have quit and called it a failure. And part of how I think about this is it’s only a failure if that’s the end of the story. The reality is that all the people who I know succeeded, it’s taken a lot of failure. It’s taken out a lot of this isn’t working, I’m doing this wrong, I’ve got rejected, a client didn’t like me, I didn’t like a client, this isn’t as fun as I thought it was going to be, and there’s a lot of that stuff paved on the pathway to success. And we just don’t talk about it enough.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

So I’m glad that Stefanie wrote it for that exact reason. And when I think she’s really talking about here is building resiliency. And I think that’s the whole point, right? Like you and I both know there are some days I’m sitting at my desk, it’s a Tuesday at three o’clock and I think I should just go get a real job. Like I should just quit this job. I can’t do this anymore. It’s hard. It’s stressful. I have a client who’s making me pull my hair out, which doesn’t exist, but it’s like I’m just upset. This isn’t going the way I thought it would. I get a little complainy and what you really do, like the most successful people are building resilience.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

And I call this the myth of success, right? Where we think that success happens because of the cliff notes story, the Instagram feed story, of how people got there. And the reality is it takes a lot more of the hard stuff than people ever talk about and that we really want to put up with sometimes. And the people who ultimately get to the success they want to have, are the people who have learned to become resilient in the face of all that adversity and just keep showing up.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

And we’ve talked in the past about the three feet from gold idea and some of that stuff. I think that this is just another great way to reiterate some of those thoughts. But here’s the reality, if you find yourself in the middle of this, where you’re questioning whether this is going to work, whether it’s worth it, it will only be worth it if you stick it out, right? You only get to the place that you want to go if you keep sticking it out.

And success is not linear. The path to achieving your goals are not linear. And Stefanie kind of makes a mention of some of those things. And sometimes I think we think that if we just do the right thing for a year, it will work out in our favor. And sometimes it takes five years and sometimes it takes five months and there’s no way to determine what is the thing that’s going to give you the breakthrough, what is the thing that is going to not.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

And I can tell you from experience, 95% of the things that I thought were going to give me the breakthrough didn’t, and a lot of the breakthroughs came from things that I never could have imagined. And the way that you set yourself up for success, I believe is to build resiliency, to become comfortable with the uncomfortable and to show up consistently. And that’s the whole Matt Raglin. Matt Ragland was my hero for that, because consistency will take you further than inspiration and motivation.

And this is something that you and I talk about behind the scenes all the time. And it’s one thing I respect about you is you show up no matter what consistently. And that’s why you win it so many things because no matter what, no matter if you feel you like it or you don’t, no matter if it feels good or it doesn’t, you show up. And that to me is a sign of resiliency. And I think it’s really important.

Tim Stoddart:

Thank you. I do sincerely appreciate that. And I agree when I read this article, I thought of something that means a lot to me. And it’s a difficult concept to really wrap your mind around, but once it does, or once I wrapped my mind around it, it helped me a lot. And that’s the idea of thinking that there’s like a finish line, right? Because you and I talk a lot about our skill sets and how we can best compliment each other.

And about how I always talk about the process, and like finding the best way to implement a process. And the reason why I like that is because it keeps me out of this idea that like one day I’m going to like get to that spot and then everything’s going to be great. Like I did it, I achieved my goal and like everything on this end of it is golden.

Tim Stoddart:

And I just have found that that’s not the way that life works and that’s definitely not the way business works. So when you read this article and you look at these unusual progress signs, the underlying tone of this article for me was that these nos, these, quote failures, aren’t really that at all. It’s just another day in the process. And if you don’t get too down by the failures and you don’t get too high by the victories over time, your, like you said, like your journey just continues to trend up and trend up. And then all of a sudden you look back 10 years from now and you think to yourself like, “Wow, look at how far I’ve come.”

Tim Stoddart:

And that’s what excites me about entrepreneurship. That’s what excites me about talking to people and learning about their journeys and their businesses, and just reminding them to keep going and keep going, because it’s been very rewarding in my life in terms of, like the success that we’ve brought and the things that get to do with my life because of that. But also just when I wake up in the morning and I go to bed at night just knowing that I did my best today and I completed my part of the process and that tomorrow I’m going to do the same thing. So I love this article, Stefanie, thank you so much for publishing it and for writing it, we appreciate you.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

So two thoughts that came to my mind when you were saying that, is number one is I’ve recognized that people who are successful, that I look up to, have fallen in love with the journey more than the destination, right? And so I think a lot of times people are like, “But I’m still so far away from the goal that I set, or it’s not happening, I’m not making the kind of money, or it’s not the way that I thought it would be.”

And I think those a lot of times that indicates that you’ve forgotten that the process is the thing that you should fall in love with. Like, I think physical fitness is an example of that, right? Like, unless you fall in love with the process, you’re probably not going to show up to the gym every day.

Tim Stoddart:

Yeah, because it sucks.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

Because it sucks. And you have to love the process. If you’re just focus on the outcome, then it’s really easy for you to say, “Oh, the process sucks so much that I’m not going to do it and just screw the outcome. I don’t care anymore. I give up.” So I think a lot of people that I look up to and have accomplished things that I hope to accomplish someday, I’ve fallen in love with the process and that’s really important.

The second thing is the emotional connection you have to something like, I quote failure. I think people who I really respect and look up to as well, and I’ve noticed that the pain of some of these things goes away when I can just say, I can be more objective about what’s happening.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

And there’s a really great author. Her name is Dr. Tasha Eurich and she says, what, not, why. So don’t try to like analyze like why did this client like fire me? Or why is this happening to me? Or why did I fail here? Like, don’t focus on the why focus on the what. And you can disconnect the emotions from it a little bit. And I think it’s really helpful to say, “Oh, the what here, it’s like objective, I’m not going to have emotions attached to it.

The what is, this didn’t work out the way I wanted it to. I’m going to use that as an input to now make my next approach different, better, more efficient, more effective and it’s going to be a what. Like, I’m just going to look at it as a what, not a why, and I’m not going to sit and try to analyze it. I’m not going to sit here and have an emotional response to it.”

Darrell Vesterfelt:

It is okay to have emotional responses. It is okay to feel emotions, but I’m going to choose to be objective in this moment and say, this is actually just a stepping stone towards my success or towards where I’m trying to go. And just disconnecting the emotional responses from some of the objective things that just happen.

Like sometimes it just doesn’t work out with the client and that doesn’t mean that you’re bad person. Sometimes a piece of content doesn’t hit the way that you think it will and that doesn’t mean you’re a bad writer. Sometimes it takes longer to get to the outcome you want and that’s okay too. So I think some of those things came to mind when you were talking and I just love this article because it opens up so much of this conversation.

Tim Stoddart:

Me too. Thank you for sharing those insights Darrell. Stefanie, thank you for writing this and for publishing it and if anybody has any thoughts or if this article has inspired you in any way, feel free to reach out. You can reach me at tim@copyblogger.com and you can reach Darrell at d, the letter d@copyblogger.com. All right, we’re going to take a quick break. And then we’re going to answer your question.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

This week’s question is from our friend Michelle H. Here’s the question.

Michelle:

Thank you. I just listened to your podcast on June 18th. My question is when you write something on medium, how do you redirect the reader back to your blog posts, hyphen, specifically how do you say it? What is it that you say? What techniques work?

Darrell Vesterfelt:

Awesome. I love that question. It’s super practical and we’ll dive into it specifically, but let’s give it a little bit more context before we dive into the specifics. So what we were talking about is whether or not you should write your content on medium, or if you should have it on your own blog. And we’ve had this question come up, I don’t know how many times, a hundred times in the Q&A’s that we do every month and questions that we get asked and email questions that come in.

So I think that’s an interesting question, and this is a little bit different than the question that was asked, but I want to set this context first, and then we can dive into why we’re wanting to push people from medium your own site. To this topic, I think Tim, every podcast we’ve had so far has talked about digital sharecropping on some level.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

And it makes me excited because this is one of Copyblogger’s strong stances for the last five or 10 years. And the idea that medium to me in my mind and the way that I view it, medium is a platform that owns your content. However, they give you a publishing platform. I would put it in the same category as Facebook and Instagram and Twitter is that it is a place that owns your content and makes the rules for you cannot… You don’t get a choice whether you buy it by that or not.

So what we’ve often said to people is we recommend that you have your own site, your own blog, your content exists on a piece of real estate that you own and nobody else does. However, medium is a great tool to drive people who might be reading on medium, whether it’s a suggested post that medium does, whether it’s basically another search engine that can send people to your content and then thus getting them to your website. Because the goal of all content marketing in my opinion, is driving people to subscription via email.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

So that’s why we talk about medium. That’s why the question of medium comes up a lot. And I think the question comes up because mediums are really easy platform just to like sign up and start writing content and you essentially have your blog at that point. But it’s missing a few key elements that set you up for success longterm, mainly being the ability to own email subscribers from your content. So that’s this question and specifically, Tim, what are your thoughts about how we would dry people from content that we would write on medium to your own website? How would you do it? What specific things?

Tim Stoddart:

Okay. Great. Well, Michelle, thank you so much for the question and also thank you so much for listening. It means a lot, even just hearing that, to know that you heard the podcast, you listened to the advice, you thought to yourself, “Well, that probably is a better way to do it.” And you took some action. So congratulations on that. You asked for specifics. So I’m going to give you some specifics.

The approach is the same as everything. You have to offer something of value. So this is what I do. I do it in two different ways and it depends on how much I care and frankly like how lazy I’m being. There’s one really great way to do it. And there’s another kind of cheap, fast way to do it.

Tim Stoddart:

The better way to do it is write your blog posts at the bottom of medium and say, thank you for reading, if you are interested in, insert some kind of value, add here, please click this link. And make sure that link goes directly to a landing page. And that landing page has only one call to action, which is an email sign up. Most people make the mistake and this is the second way to do it, which is the lazy way.

Most people make the mistake of just linking to the original piece of content at the bottom of medium, which is great and it’s helpful. And over time enough people will click on that link. However, they just read the entire piece of content. So you’re not showing them anything new when you’re not giving them any more value by linking to the original piece of content, which is on your blog anyway.

Tim Stoddart:

And so this is exactly what I do. I let them read the entire piece of content and at the bottom, I say, thank you for reading. And then after I thank them, I give them a very specific value add, which could be an eBook, it could be a free download, it could just be a link to my homepage and say, sign up to my free newsletter here. But you have to give them something of value. You don’t want to just link to the same article that they read.

So again, thank you so much for listening. Thank you for the question. It’s a great question. Your head is in the right place. Keep going. And then the last thing I will say is don’t be afraid to experiment. I can tell that you want specifics because you asked for specifics, but test a couple of things out, because sometimes you never know, audiences are different and people are fickle. So try a couple different experiments out and I think you’ll be surprised at some of the results you’ll get. So, thanks Michelle.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

So a few things I’ll add to that is I believe it’s possible that you can add an email capture form to medium, and you could also link to like a ConvertKit landing page specifically. Like if you had specific content upgrades and you want to just go to a specific landing page, essentially what you said, Tim, but those are things that you can actually create in ConvertKit as well.

Here’s what I will say about both of those things and why it’s important, not just to embed a form on medium is that at any point, medium can change the rules and all of a sudden they do not allow embedded forms on the content.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

And I think that it’s really, really important to drive people again with a very specific content upgrade offer like Tim was saying. Do a page either on your site or a landing page on something like ConvertKit or ClickFunnels or something similar where you are then capturing people for the longterm.

So again, this is a great question, and I think it’s really, really important to differentiate the content you create on a medium and the content that you create elsewhere on your site, driving people towards the end goal, the subscribing to your email list. So thanks again for the question.

Darrell Vesterfelt:

All right, Tim, another great episode. This was fun. I love the conversation. I’m excited to follow up on some of the things that we talked about in the first segment with Walmart and Shopify, specifically with this new commerce platform from ConvertKit. Super excited, great conversation. And if you want to ask a question, you ask like Michelle did today, at copyblogger.com/ask. And you can record a question and it’s possible that we’ll feature it on this podcast in the future. So Tim, Thanks for being with me to speak again and we will be back next week.

Tim Stoddart:

All right. Thanks brother. See you next week. Thanks everybody.


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